The Elliot Johnson/Francisco Cervelli collision during Saturday’s game between the Yankees and Rays has certainly given writers, bloggers, commenters and fans of both teams plenty to talk about. At the heart of the matter is the question over whether it was a “hard-ball” play or a “dirty” play. As can be expected, most Yankee fans saw it as a cheap shot, while most Rays fans were happy to see one of their players finally smack the big bad wolf in the mouth.

I decided to ask my good friend and fellow blogger, Cork Gaines, editor of Rays Index to join me in a spirited exchange of emails about Saturday’s incident. Printed below is our back and forth which I hope you will find entertaining.

In case you missed it, here is the video so you can judge for yourself before you read our discussion:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5mrg_AUgE8[/youtube]
(Originally put up on YouTube by NYY STADIUM INSIDER, this seems to be the same video but by a different poster. Whoever reposted it, thank you).

MYBB: What was your initial reaction on Saturday when Elliot Johnson barreled over Yankee catcher Francisco Cervelli in the eighth inning of a meaningless spring training game?

RAYS INDEX: My initial reaction went something like this:

  1. Yes! It is new level of intensity that I have never seen in the Rays, whether it be spring or regular season or the play…wait never mind.
  2. What is Michael Kay going to say. I knew he was bound to say something negative and he came through calling the play unnecessary (i believe he referred to it as a “meaningless spring training game”). the problem I have with that statement is several-fold, but mostly I loathe the statement because it is just wrong. It is not meaningless to the guys that are playing in the 9th inning of the second week. these are the guys that are fighting for spots. maybe they have no shot at making the team out of spring training, but they need to prove to the manager and the front office that they can be major league baseball players soon. maybe during the season or next year. these games are very important to those players. they are not just “going through the motions” or “fine-tuning their games” they are competing.
  3. I was surprised he was hurt, because honestly I didn’t think Johnson hit him that hard. as far as home plate collisions go, that seemed pretty tame and Johnson is a second baseman. Not exactly Carl Crawford or Jonny Gomes barreling towards home.
  4. Thank god it wasn’t Jorge Posada, or else this would have been a national media firestorm, although I have to think that Posada would have been smarter and “ole’d” the tag in spring training. That is, i think Posada would have stepped up to receive the throw and placed a swipe-tag on Johnson to avoid a spring training collision…Nobody wants to see another player get hurt (OK, at times I admit I want to see Aubrey Huff get hurt. He’s an ass), but injuries do happen. Girardi is not asking his pitchers to pitch only on the outside of the plate and he is not asking his pitchers to dial it down a few miles per hour. And really how many times have seen a home plate collision? A lot. And how many of those times was a catcher injured? Not many. I am not saying a catcher can’t get injured. I am saying that it is rare to get injured or else baseball would ban the play.

Much of the firestorm in the media and in the blogosphere has revolved around Joe Girardi’s comments. How much do you attribute his comments to a young manager trying to earn the respect of a veteran team by defensing his players? Knowing the hard-nosed style of Girardi, do you think his comments would be different if you could get him off-the-record?

MYBB: First off, let me address a few of the issues you brought up. You mentioned Michael Kay and right there I have to agree, calling it a “meaningless spring training game” was a tad over-the-top. Young guys are out there playing hard trying to make an impression which I’m all for. But does running over a catcher late in a spring training game constitute a “nice hard-ball play” as Joe Maddon called it, or sheer stupidity? The game was an exhibition where the standings are meaningless. If the Rays goal is to win the Grapefruit League, then yes, I can understand it. But with Johnson’s collision coming only days after Carl Crawford ran over Houston catcher Humberto Quintero, you would think that Maddon would have at least reminded his players that these games don’t really count and to use caution. Instead, Maddon seems to be telling his team - bully the bully, take-no-prisoners and worry what happens later. If that’s his philosophy, I think it could lead to unforeseen consequences, especially if the Rays don’t live up to the hype that’s being placed upon them in ‘08. I agree that games are meaningful for players trying to make an impression, but where does it say that running over a catcher in an exhibition game will win you a job over another guy?

Turning to Joe Girardi and his comments, I think he meant what he said and was just protecting one of his players. I don’t think he’s worried about how it would play in the clubhouse with the veterans. As a former catcher, I believe he was surprised that a team would continue to condone running over catchers in exhibition games. I’ve watched the play about 15 times and I must take issue with you on whether it was a hard hit. Johnson clearly had a full-head of steam coming down the line and dropped his left shoulder into Cervelli. Obviously it’s very difficult to stop your momentum, but I thought the hit had a little extra mustard on it. As far as getting Girardi off the record, I think his comments would stay consistent. However, I think he would take issue more with Maddon than the actual play. I’ve always been a big Maddon fan, but I think he’s asking his players to put the cart before the horse. Teams won’t begin to take you seriously by barreling over their players in an exhibition game, that will only make them seek revenge. Winning and beating your adversary is a much better way to earn the respect of your opponent. In my opinion, Maddon has been watching too many Hillary Clinton rallies on CNN. Hillary is out on the campaign trail touting a dream team with Barack Obama where she puts herself at the top of the ticket. The problem is, he’s winning in delegates with an inside track to the Democratic nomination. Maddon seems to be telling his club to play with a certain swagger because they’re the ones to beat this season. I’m not so sure that’s a particularly sound strategy when only once in the history of your franchise have you finished higher than fifth in the division.

RAYS INDEX: When does Michael Kay not say something that is a “tad over-the-top”?

As for the play…Let me remind everybody…this was not a “dirty” play. This was not an illegal play. Yankees fans are upset because a player was playing hard. On the surface…do you know how silly that sounds? I know you are upset a guy got hurt, but geez…all he did was make a normal everyday baseball play. He was playing hard. Nobody threw a pitch at somebody’s head. Nobody slide into second with spikes raised. It was a clean play.

As for Joe Maddon…The Rays are not trying to win the Grapefruit League and nobody thinks the Rays are the team to beat. For the most part everybody agrees that W’s in March mean nothing, but did you know that seven of last year’s eight playoff teams had winning records in spring training? For a team like the 2008 Tampa Bay Rays that is trying to shed 10 years of stench, they need a new attitude as much as they needed better players. A team like the Yankees or the Pink Hats can coast in March because there are enough veterans on the team that know how to “turn it on” and know how to win. But for the Rays, there is a mentality that needs to change and Joe Maddon is not waiting until April to begin instilling it. He is teaching winning before it is needed. it is absolutely the right thing to do and exactly where the cart should be.

For a team that does not have the birthright to buy an all-star for every position, winning takes a little more than just filling out a lineup card. It is a mentality. To steal the words from my co-writer, DRG, If the Rays are going to compete in the AL East against teams that think the playoffs are just handed to them on a silver platter their attitude needs to change, The Rays could put their collective tails between their legs and accept losing or they can stand up to the bullies. With some drunk in the right field bleachers screaming “Get him a body bag, yeaaahhh!”, Daniel LaRusso just punched the Cobra Kai in the nose, and it sure sounds like the Cobra Kai would rather cry about it than fight back.

MYBB: I really don’t think Yankee fans are upset because the guy was playing hard. I think most of us are upset with the way the Rays seem to be playing the game. It’s one thing to have this “us versus them” attitude, but what do you gain from running over a catcher in an exhibition game? I fail to see how that one play will win you a job and or do anything for your standing within the organization. Playing hard is all well and good, but being careless is another matter and I think after Crawford ran over Quintero a few days earlier, Joe Maddon should have put a stop to it for the sake of his own players.

Johnson didn’t mean to break Cervelli’s wrist, but obviously the chances of something bad happening increase when you allow your players to run over catchers. And maybe in this instance Cervelli was even lucky. I think it could have been worse.

I like the fact that Maddon is trying to instill a new “mentality” in the Rays after losing the clubhouse a bit last year when he had trouble controlling the now departed Delmon Young and hoodlum Elijah Dukes. He has an obligation to get his team to believe in themselves and compete hard everyday. I just think telling your players it’s okay to run over an opposing team’s catcher is careless, especially when the end game doesn’t mean much in the spring. All you do is risk injury to both players and for a young and promising team like the Rays, I’m surprised Maddon is advocating it.

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I appreciate Cork agreeing to join me in this discussion. If you haven’t visited his blog yet, I encourage you to check it out and then bookmark it. In my opinion, his coverage of the Rays is second to none as far as blogs go. A great writing ability combined with his own unique perspective provide endless hours of enjoyable reading.

Thanks again to Rays Index.